Anyone who has read the books knows that being buried under rubble doesn't mean much for the Forsaken.

They can always be resurrected unless they're burnt from the pattern completely using balefire

Don't watch the show and don't care to from what I've heard. Seems just as bad as "Rings of Power" if not worse.

In the books though, Faile does lie a lot about her background. Not knowing how the show has set this up, I can't really comment but is it possible that this is simply another of Faile's fibs?

Cristina

Well, I do commend you on your commitment to replying to comments.

As for "tackling" HoME, that really is easy when you truly love the material. Only part that really posed any difficulties for me were the more purely etymological/philological bits as, unlike JRRT, languages, other than English, are not my strong point.

My objections to Tom being the Flame, something which is the source of all life, energy and matter and would grant the power of Creation is that, to me, that diminishes Tom as a character.

That the Flame would simply sit there and possibly fall in the end to Sauron and not do anything unless all the peoples of M.E begged him to makes him seem, to me, an even greater fool than, to the foolish, he might appear

I definitely think Goldberry is likely a lesser Maia, of the people of Ulmo. Which makes sense given Ulmo maintains his power in M.E.

In that vein, Tom to me is likely a Maia of Yavanna although, now you made me think harder on it, I quite like the idea of Tom being an Ent like spirit which never inhabited an Olvar. That would certainly at least explain his ability to command Old Man Willow

Cristina

Eh, you can have your theories but if you're going to put them out there publicly then expect to have them challenged.

In the same vein, just because something may have less impact or meaning to you if interpreted differently doesn't mean that it will to others.

I'm perfectly happy for Tom & Goldberry to be Maiar who have lived in Eriador since before the fall of the Lamps

There is also the possibility which I haven't yet brought up that they may be amongst the "spirits from afar", summoned by the "thought of Yavanna" (as sung in the Ainulindalë) who will "go among the kelvar and the olvar" (e.g the Ents) "and some will dwell therein" (emphasis there on some) which would also fit as these spirits would arrive in the darkness after the fall of the Lamps at the arising of the Firstborn. Who knows what they might know of any time before then and may only know that they were there "first"

I've read the "big 3" at least 25 times (each) over the past 33 years as well as having read the complete History of Middle Earth more than once and I'm also perfectly happy with how my arguments stack up, thanks 👍

Cristina

I still say only a lesser Maia. Not as powerful as Melian, Sauron or Gandalf.

As noted by Elrond, in the end Tom too would fall and I doubt the Imperishable Flame would be so easily extinguished by Sauron. The Imperishable Flame was Morgoth's greatest desire and if Tom was the Flame and simply sitting in Western Eriador the entire time, he probably would have been found and extinguished long before.

As I said above, it was when Melkor/Morgoth was outside the confines of Arda when the lands and seas were first brought to order and Tom could easily have been in that same place for as long as that place has existed as a Maia responsible for helping shape the land (as Goldberry perhaps helped shaped the waters)

As for Tom's resisting the power of the Ring, that's easy, he simply has no desire for anything above and outside his own lands and it is that which the Rings powers play upon. Desire.