Comics owe a lot to quite a number of people who not only birthed fantastic ideas that are still in play today but kept them alive throughout the decades. Two such people are Stan Lee, titans of the industry and major players for Marvel in particular. Alone, they were verifiable powerhouses that invented full universes, and together, as attested in an interview by Lee, they were one of the finest duos in the industry.

Kirby is a name all on his own, responsible for an impossibly long list of creations and co-creations, including the Fourth World saga at DC, and Marvel's Captain America, the X-Men, the Fantastic Four, and more. While he's primarily ed as an artist, he was certainly more than just an artist.

And the equally famous Lee had just as much to say about him, and better, in a 1968 interview with The Comics Journal's Ted White, which ran in 1995.

Some artists, of course, need a more detailed plot than others. Some artists, such as Jack Kirby, need no plot at all. I mean, I’ll just say to Jack, “Let’s let the next villain be Dr. Doom.” … or I may not even say that. He may tell me. And then he goes home and does it. He’s so good at plots, I’m sure he’s a thousand times better than I. He just about makes up the plots for these stories. All I do is a little editing … I may tell him that he’s gone too far in one direction or another. Of course, occasionally I’ll give him a plot, but we’re practically both the writers on the things.

Comics weren't just about bringing to life a story in images for someone like Kirby. He was a true storyteller in many artistic mediums.

Jack Kirby Was a Treasure Trove of Comic Book Ideas

The Veteran Artist Was More Than Just An Illustrator

A comic has a lot of moving pieces and a lot of hands working on even a single issue. The work of a comic book artist is typically cross-platform, teaming up with various writers and bringing their visions to life. Some writers and artists stick together through many issues, as was the case with Scott Snyder and Greg Capullo, who worked together on a long run of Batman as well as a number of events, like Death Metal. There are also artists - like Jeff Lemire, Daniel Warren Johnson, and other contemporaries - who split between writing and drawing their own work or collaborating with other artists.

Jack Kirby had a major hand in almost every creation of theirs - and, apparently, more than a hand on some occasions.

Kirby, according to Lee, was more than just an artist. In the words of the Marvel legend, who co-created the Avengers, Fantastic Four, Spider-Man, and more, Lee more often than not stepped back to let Kirby's ideas shine. Kirby had a major hand in every creation of theirs - and, apparently, more than a hand on some occasions. It's not often that an artist is as involved as Kirby was, but that only speaks to the trust between these two titans. Lee knew that the worlds within Kirby were wonderful.

Jack Kirby Created a Modern Mythology with His Fourth World Saga

Kirby Imagined Key DC Characters Still In Play Today

One of Kirby's crowning achievements is the infinitely creative Fourth World of DC Comics. The characters that boomed out of the titles he helped bring to fame were characters like Mister Miracle, whom Tom King and Mitch Gerards took to win an Eisner with Mister Miracle; Big Barda, who is a key player in the current Eisner-nominated Birds of Prey series by Kelly Thompson and Leonardo Romero; as well as Darkseid, who has had an epic return as part of DC's 2024 All In initiative. All of these characters have been such a fundamental part of DC's Universe, with Darkseid even being lauded as DC's main antagonist.

One of Kirby's original 1970s Fourth World titles, The New Gods, is finally returning to DC's publishing line this winter. Check out The New Gods by Ram V and Evan Cagle, a key piece in the All In and Absolute Universe stories, available December 18th, 2024 from DC Comics.

It's astounding to note that after working with Lee, Kirby went on to create a whole universe of DC characters who still have lasting ramifications within the larger continuity to this day, including the teasing of a coming Ragnarök. Kirby had a full mythology waiting within him, and Lee seemed to sense that as they created together at Marvel. His ingenuity was not the kind to just take words and illustrate them. Lee knew better than anyone to let him create, as Kirby sometimes came up with a better plot than Lee could.

Stan Lee and Jack Kirby Revitalized Superhero Comics with the Fantastic Four

The Marvel Staple Owes Its Existence to Jack Kirby

Later in life, both of these comic-book legends disputed who was the true creator of the Fantastic Four and other Marvel characters. They worked on the title for many years and gained acclaim specifically for the debut of Galactus and the Silver Surfer in the Fantastic Four #48–50 in 1966. In the previous quote, Lee seems to hint that Kirby was the one pulling the strings on Doctor Doom's plots, and in that same interview, Lee goes on to explain that Kirby continually helped him formulate ideas which were previously still in the outlining stages.

Now Jack has been in on most of these things with me. I can call Jack down. I can say, “Jack, make it a 12-page story, and, roughly, this is the plot.” Jack can go home, and the next day he has the whole thing broken down. He gives it to the artist, and the artist just has to worry about drawing his work on the breakdowns. It’s a lot easier than me spending a whole day discussing the philosophy of the strip with a new artist. Also, there are some fellows who are starting a new strip who are a little unfamiliar. They’d rather have Jack break it down for them once or twice until they get the feeling of it.

In this light, there would be no Fantastic Four without Kirby. Lee is often celebrated as being a prolific creator, and fans are indebted to him for some fan-favorite characters - like Spider-Man, co-created by Steve Ditko, who also feuded with Lee later in life - but with his other titles, it seems that Kirby understood the story much better than Lee himself. Able to break stories in a single night as well as communicate that story in clear words to other artists, Kirby was an essential piece of the comic industry that did what Lee could not do.

Jack Kirby Takes His Rightful Place as a Comic Industry God

The Fantastic Four Meet Their Maker

The interview puts into question who the true writer was in their creative relationship, especially with Lee's smirking aside about breaking plots with Kirby. He would say to Kirby, "'Let’s let the next villain be Dr. Doom.' … or I may not even say that. He may tell me." With this interview, Lee cemented him and Kirby not only as lifelong friends, or as kings of comics, which every fan knew anyway, but that Kirby was a genius and practically Lee's muse. Kirby deserves to be recognized for Lee's top heroes, which he co-created alongside him.

Interested in learning more about the history of the industry and the creators behind the comics? Check out books like The Ten-Cent Plague: The Great Comic-Book Scare and How It Changed America by David Hajdu and the illuminating Lee biography, True Believer: The Rise and Fall of Stan Lee by Abraham Josephine Riesman.

It doesn't stop there either, because Kirby is responsible for a few other key pieces of Marvel lore, including the Hulk, Thor, the Inhumans, and even Black Panther and his native land of Wakanda. With Kirby as an endless trove of stories, Lee could only marvel and guide him where he needed guiding, as a writer first and foremost - but Kirby was both, and when working together, his stories and his art certainly left a lasting impact that seemed to be the backbone of all comics, whether fans realize it or not.

There Are No Contemporary Comics Without Jack Kirby

The Best in Comic-Book History

In the end, Lee had nothing but good things to say about his friend and iconic co-artist and co-writer Kirby. He even went so far as to call him Jack "King" Kirby, saying, "In his particular field, he's the master." One thing is for sure - without Kirby, comics would never be the same, from the New Gods to some of the most fantastic heroes of Marvel to the entire romance genre, which Kirby innovated with his Captain America co-creator, Joe Simon. Kirby needed no plot at all in order to create. As Stan Lee realized, Jack Kirby was the plot.

Source: The Comic Journal